♪ good afternoon. i'm karen finney in for martin bashir. here's what's happening. shake. >> it's almost like an etch a sketch. you can kind of shake it up and we start all over again. >> rattle. >> make a promise to republican voters that you will not be staking out more moderate -- >> just answer the question. >> and roll. >> imagine had mitt romney been around at the time we were drafting our constitution. he would have just shaken it up after it was approved to rewrite it. >> didn't have the decency to wait until they get the nomination to explain how they'll sell us out. if we're dumb enough to nominate him, we should expect that he'll move back to the left.

>> this is the first of my etch a sketch tour of america. >> a whole lot of shaking going on. but how will it all shake out? ♪ great beautiful fire >> it's the toy that became a stage prop, a website, a hash tag and the hottest item on the campaign trail. the etch a sketch that seem to have shaken the foundation of the romney campaign and it ain't going away any time soon. in fact the ever it soared today, more than 200% as the stoi story stays in the headlines. ohio art is even accepting out etch a sketch packages for the candidates as they are trying to make it all go away. >> organizationally, a general

election campaign takes on a different profile. the issues i'm running on will be exactly the same. i'm running as a conservative republican. i was a conservative republican governor. i'll be running as a conservative republican nominee. >> rick santorum isn't just letting it go. brandishing the toy again from the podium in san antonio, texas, and the etch a sketch pubs keep coming. >> they're looking for someone who is an etched in stone candidate. someone they know they can trust. >> unlike mitt romney, trul's views are etched in stone will as santorum himself pointed out, the gop version of history is not so solid. >> the past isn't just the past. history is not something that is purely objective. it is written from a perspective. >> history is written from a perspective. for example, here's mitt romney's view of the president's international policy as he stated just last night.

>> one of the things that just broke my heart was watching the president go around the world apologizing for america and early in his term. >> you know, that claim that president obama has gone around the world apologizing for america, rightly got a pants on fire rating from political fact. it was even the finalist for lie of the year. keep shaking that etch a sketch, gop. you never know. maybe the truth will disappear. like karl rove's attempt to rewrite presidential history suggesting the killing of osama bin laden was no big deal. he writes in a "wall street journal" op-ed, obama did virtually what any commander-in-chief would have done in the same situation. even president bill clinton says in the film, that's the call i would have made. for this to be portrayed as the epic achievement of the first term tells you how bare the white house cup boards are. >> are you about a commander-in-chief by the name

of bush? here's what president bill clinton actually said. he said, i hope that's the call i would have made. i'm going to bring in our panel now with us from washington. msnbc contributor jonathan, opinion writer for the "washington post." msnbc political analyst david corn. the author of the brand new book, showdown. thanks for being with me on my first show. >> good to be here. >> i want to start with you. you talk about the bin laden raid in your new book. now karl rove says this is no big deal? >> it was a very big deal. in the book showdown, there is a whole chamt on the decision making that led to this decision. and just to give you one little piece of the drama, the cia had estimated that there was a 60 to 80% certainty that the fellow they had spotted in the compound in pakistan was indeed osama bin laden. but yet two days before,

actually the day before obama was to make a decision, the cia came in and said we've had a red team look at all the intelligence. these are analysts who had not looked at any of it up to then to just give a final review. and they have actually dropped the certainty to 40 to 60%. so it was going in the wrong direction. vice president biden and defense secretary bob gates both advised barack obama. hey, don't do anything yet. let's see if we can get more definitive intelligence. he took all that information. he saw that a majority, more than half of his national security advisers were against launching the raid and he did it any way. it was a gutsy call that put his presidency at risk. and if karl rove thinks that's no big deal, he is the guy who put bush in a flight suit on a flight deck of a carrier with a mission accomplished signed behind him. >> not to mention, one of the things i love about that comment from karl rove. if it was no big deal, then why did not you do it, karl?

hey, jonathan, here's the thing i noticed. it seem like it is becoming increasingly vital for republicans to rewrite history. i'm going to try to stay away from the etch a sketch puns. whether it is suggesting that catching bin laden was no biggy or climate change important little piece about the economy that obama inherited rather than worsening the economy. what's going on here in. >> well, i think it is a twofold strategy. one, in terms of belittling the achievement of killing osama bin laden. it is slowly but surely etching away at the legitimacy of this particular president. they have, this has been going on in all sort of all facets of the campaign and also, republicans in general. where you have them, whether it is the birther issue or the questioning whether the president is a christian. it is chipping away at his legitimacy. the other thing, the second part of the strategy is going,

looking for any and all areas of weakness for the president and his presidency so that to soften the ground for whoever the republican nominee will be. and it looks like it might be for sure mitt romney. who knows? but they're doing anything and everything they can to whittle away at the president's legitimacy. whatever argument he can make for re-election which that's what they're supposed to do. i don't know how successful they're going to be though. that's the thing. >> here's the thing i can tell you, coming up as a communications person in the clinton world, we were always taught that the republican way was to try to hit your opponent at what is their perceived strength which is how i interpret this attempt to go after the killing of osama bin laden. that's pretty bad ass if you ask me. let's put the communications issues aside. it seem like one of the biggest, they were hoping to run hard on the economy. the economy is improving. we're seeing new jobless numbers

are falling, wednesday to the lowest rate since february 2008. so it feels like what they're really trying to do is distract from that. that's why they keep raising all these other issues. >> of course we'll see the economy improve with toy sales on the increase in the next couple of days. they need an issue. they dope have a compelling candidate. and mitt romney or the others, and they don't have compelling messages. so they've been hammering gas prices as a surrogate. the jobs numbers are looking better. the economy still quite frankly is not strong. even though the unemployment numbers have been trickling down and jobless claims have improved. it still is a pretty weak economy which in my mine would give any republican nominee a pretty wide opening to go after barack obama. and mitt romney, you know, has a case. it could be better. i could be doing a better job. yet he is such a weak candidate. can't help but put his silver

foot in his mouth again and again and again. they keep looking for the newest thing to do themselves can't sell mitt romney himself. >> go ahead. >> one thing, david, we're talk b this now but keep in mind, once the republican nominee is official, we hit the reset button and you're back at square one. >> we're back at square one. and mitt romney will be able to make all of these arguments all over again with a majority of the country at him for the first time with their own eyes. not caring all the baggage that we're carrying with all of his silver feet in his mouth. >> that's true. >> guys? >> i would argue though that if any pattern has been set here, it is that pretty much we can count on mitt romney to step on his own good story. jonathan and david, please stay with us. we'll come back and talk a little about the president's day. coming up from presidential candidates to the president. and his answer to critics on the white house energy policy.

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earlier the preds fast tracked plans for the key stone oil pipeline but he suggest he's not quite ready to sign off on the rest of it. >> the fact is that my administration has approved dozens of new oil and gas pipelines over the last three years including one from canada. as long as i'm president, we're going to keep on encouraging oil

development and infrastructure and we're going to do it in a way that protects the health and safety of the american people. >> can you hear it? cue house speaker john boehner saying, what? the president has not kept his promises. >> the president can take credit for having nothing to do with the bottom half of this pipeline. there is a big gap between what the president promises and what he talks about and the actions that he's taking. >> all right. back with us now, jonathan capehart and david corn. jonathan, i'm going to call you jonathan which i know is odd because martin usually calls you john. john. he's not here so i'm calling you nth jo. the president is out on this tour. he is trying to get the upper hand. the white house calls this all of the above strategy. there is this reality that gas prices, in d.c. it's like $4.65. he's going to suffer from that.

whether that's fair or not, we're going to have to deal with that, correct? >> correct. no president, whether the gas prices go up or down has any control over gas prices. it's the world commodities markets that have control over gas prices. so the president gets blamed when they go up. the president gets blamed when they go down and there's nothing they can do about it. the only thing that a white house and administration, a president can do is to try to make decisions and do things that at least give people the confidence that the president is trying to do any number of things to bring, you know, ease the pressure at the pump. whatever oil comes from the key stone pipeline, let's be clear. that oil is not going to come online for at least ten years. and so when newt gingrich says that he can guarantee americans $2.50 a gallon gasoline, that might be true. but he doesn't tell you when and he doesn't tell you how he's going to work his hocus-pocus to

ensure the world commodity oil markets will koomt with him. >> that's like karl rove speaking of our friend karl rove and bush said in march of 2008 that the economy will be fine by the summer. he just didn't say which summer. so timing is everything in this game, right? >> the summer of '22. >> here's what strikes me, the president is trying to walk a fine line. on the one hand, this kind of move. it appeals to independents. we can't miss that he said this in new mexico. we're about oklahoma to texas. where santorum is going today. this is going to upset the sort of greener parts of the base who don't want this pipeline. so how is the president going to walk that line? >> well, i think they've already have expressed their disappointment, the environmental groups about this decision. i think the president's best line of political defense on this, taking it aside from the politics arguments, is that he does have an all of the above

strategy. and yesterday, you saw him in front of this gigantic field of solar cells saying, listen, i'm trying to do everything at once to get the political will to win independents to my desires to do this. we have to go in all directions at once and cut off the political attack from the right. the one thing that kind of impressed me when i was working on this book for the president, he tries to take a long run view of policy matters. i think sometimes maybe that doesn't play well politically and it is hard to message. when it come to energy, you can't do a lot in the short run as jonathan or john just noted. so he's trying to give the impression, this is a guy who can look ahead and deal with this, the overarching problem while we have to deal with the ups and downs right now while the people on the right, the republicans are saying, this is terrible. i thought they were in favor of free markets and letting

businesses charge whatever they want to charge but not when it come to gasoline. >> the left doesn't like it, the right doesn't like it. the guy can't win. thank you for joining me. the president has apparently just arrived in columbus, ohio so we'll go to mike viqueira. the president is pushing his message in a crucial swing state. i'm sure that's a coincidence. mike is traveling with the president and he is joining us from the press bus. or not? i think we see your lap. i don't know if that's what you mean to show us. >> okay. thank you and safe travels. coming up next, we're not going to show mike. the politics of the paul ryan budget. it is risky business indeed. ben hooks owns the tiler texas buford media group. they are a tiny cable company serving 7,000 subscribers across six states. he continues to buy small rural

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he is from a competitor. >> yo, mike! we're to you. hi! >> that won't be helpful. >> stand by. >> mike! >> anchor! >> all right, mike. thanks. safe travels and enjoy that press bus. must have been just scintillating conversation. let's switch gears. the controversial ryan budget plans awaits its fate on the house floor today. that's after barely getting the green light from the house budget committee wednesday night. joining us now from capitol hill is the one and only luke russert. luke! >> karen, i'm not on a bus so i can't help you as much. i'm here in the halls of congress. >> it's so good to see you, luke. >> yes, yes, john mccain's office is here so i'm sure the straight talk express could be summoned at any minute. >> it will be rolling along. let's talk about this budget. there are a lot of similarities

between my read of it, what's in this bill, and so much of what actually failed miserably, i might say, in the budget that ryan introduced last year. we know that even if it passes the house, it won't pass the senate. what are the republicans thinking here? what's the strategy? >> it's really interesting, karen. a lot of reports today written about how the messaging of paul ryan's budget would be this time around. paul ryan budget 2.0. the last time the republicans got really slammed when this budget came out. kathy in western new york was able to win a special election on the issue of medicare saying republicans were campaigning to end medicare. save medicare, vote democratic. this time around, the gop has gone through, should we say, a re-formation of how they were going to message this. and they went, they made a decision in the last few days that they would in fact try to talk less about the plan. less about medicare and more about debt. when you talk about medicare, there is still this idea that

programs eventually the age will be raised to 67. that there will be a private voucher program. there is the option in ryan 2.0 to pay more money to keep traditional medicare money down the line. they would be the first to tell you that would not apply to people for about 20 more years. if you're near that threshold right now, you're okay. and they will now say as speaker john boehner said yesterday, that we're protecting seniors with this budget. so that has been the biggest difference, i would say, in term of the messaging. the numbers -- go ahead. >> so basically, what you're telling me is that the message is, the less said the better. that's what i'm hearing. we're not going to talk about it. >> on the medicare part, the less said, the better because that was such a controversial issue for them last time around. they really want to narrow in on, this is a plan that will cut trillions of dollars from the debt. now coincidentally, it doesn't balance the budget until about 2040 which has led to some folks on the right, the club for growth not this. you mentioned how it passed out

of communicate barely by one vote. there is an element of the conservative part of the house gop conference that is not satisfied with this budget because they say, a, it doesn't cut enough and it doesn't balance quickly enough. >> also, democrats are still going to be able to say that this ends medicare as we know it which is going to scare people, obviously, so the less they talk about it, it seem they are actually leaving themselves even more vulnerable. so i guess my question is, i don't think the messaging strategy will work but they have some brilliance that clearly i don't. how are the candidates going to run on this? >> the idea is that this would be a package in a way that it would be debt reduction. that obama is a big time spender. that this is a budget that will be sustainable for the future for your children and grandchildren. that's what i've heard from gop operatives. a lot of them will privately tell you that in an election year, this is quite a thing to run on. it is, it was referred to as radical last year.

it certainly, some elements of that this time around on the 2.0 budget. it is not the easiest thing in the world. every candidate has to double down on this in order to get, garnter respect of the folks here on capitol hill. as far as a campaign, it is not the easiest thing to run on and they will be up front on that. they believe it is big bold leadership. when you take these cuts to popular entitlement program, when you look there and you see, well, the tax breaks, okay, maybe you can run on that. they had the chance of doing that before but you had a lot of the deficit reduction that come out of things like pel grants. >> it strikes me that it's a lot of the protect, the argument will be protecting the 1% at the expense of the 99%. and i love that they call it a blueprint just like the president called his a blueprint which they mocked. thank you so much for joining me and for being there. >> blueprints on capitol hill. take care. coming up next, police in

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someone stole the nuts. squirrel jail. justice! countless discounts. now that's progressive. call or click today. what about lite bright? what about the slinky? no, today's headlines are all sketchy. >> it is almost like an etch a sketch. you can shake it up and we start all over again. >> it was like an etch a sketch. >> an etch a sketch. >> an etch a sketch. >> an etch a sketch. >> on etch a sketch? how many of you ever used an etch a sketch? >> my daughters had an etch a sketch. this is a spare etch a sketch. >> i'm going on my etch a sketch tour of america. >> a perk example of why governor romney is having so much trouble. >> had mitt romney been around

at the time we were drafting our constitution, he would have just shaken it. >> don't even have the decency to wait until they get the nomination to explain how they'll sell us out. >> i look at the camera and say, they know i'm not holding an etch a sketch. >> if we're dumb enough to nominate him, we should know by the time of the speech, he'll move to the left. >> give us a chance. the candidate who stabs not on the edge of an etch a sketch. >> he was obviously talk b the organizational sense of changing. not mitt changing positions. >> the issues will be the same. i'll be, at that point hopefully running for nominee as president. >> this was a question i didn't get to respond to. >> how is your etching and sketching going? 100 time on etch a sketch.

i'm very sorry. >> you know that is the last question she wants to answer. richard wolff is msnbc political analyst. good afternoon. >> hello! >> very exciting. crystal, i want to start with you. the women's groups, there was a protest outside of the fund-raiser for mitt romney. and they're really seizing on this etch a sketch to make the point that you can't shake away -- to make the point that in a general election, we dope know what his role record would be on women's issues. will that stick? >> absolutely. a charge that sticks from all angles. conservatives have been reluctant to support romney because they feel like they can't trust him and women will be very reluctant to support him because they feel like they can't trust him too. i don't know if you remember when he did that interview and said i wouldn't support the blount aeld. like an hour later he was his position on that which is very important to a lot of women. the problem with this guy,

whether you're left, wright or center. you have no idea where he stand or what he believes. >> the ads write themselves. in my brainy keep thinking, i hate planned parenthood. here's my check for planned parenthood. here's the thing. women make up 51% of the population and 55% of the vote. i happen to know that black women were the largest groom that supported president obama. so how is the republican party, you can't win without some portion of the women vote. how is the republican party going to get them back with all of this uncertainty? >> it's not as you know, just a portion of the women vote. they have to take majority of it. you cannot lose -- >> there's that. >> you cannot lose by 10 or 15 points and win the presidency. the problem for the party as a whole is this branding issue. had they taken so many positions that women start to feel their fundamental rights are being questioned here. for mitt romney, he does have to try to pivot back to the guy who ran against ted kennedy. and luckily the tape is still

out there. the problem is, how do you still get out the base and say i'm mitt romney version 1.0 and also, mitt romney 3.0. and you choose. once credibility is gone and the tape is still out there, you have that. >> they're going to make the argument, this election is not going to be about contraception and it's not. it is about the economy. even once women start to look at, okay, what is your economic plan. it is the same as all the republican plans. it is giving tax cuts to people who don't need it. to cut programs from the poor and elderly who predocument thanly are women who rely on those programs. >> the other thing that strikes me as a woman is, i don't know if the republicans rthing about it this way. we all have our individual economy of our own households and our money. if i have to worry about how i'm going to pay for basic health care services, that's my economy. that is money i'm not spending on food and gas and my kids.

so that's the other calculation that i think women are probably going to be to your point. if i have to worry about this over here, i can't even worry about the larger economy. i've got to worry about my own economy. >> and they're thinking, hey, republicansering with elected you guys in 2010. you said you were going to focus on jobs and then you went ahead and introduced 1,100 pieces across the united states of legislation to tell women what they can and can't do. so it was not your focus when you got into office. and get real here. like we're trying to take care of our families and put food on the table and that's what we want you to be focused on. ? the basic premise, the turnout premise of the republicans at this time is hatred of the president. and you know what? that doesn't really work with women. it doesn't work with independent voters. the idea of loading the other side, it will work with hard core republicans with the base, very strong driving factor. but for women, for occasional voters, for independents, it doesn't work. they have to have an affirmative

case for the candidate and that isn't there. >> it seem like they would have learned that out of 2004. democrats, we tried that. right? with john kerry and hatred of bush just was not enough. right? >> thank you guys so much for joining me. krystal ball, richard wolff. >> coming up next, news development in the shooting death of trayvon marine. everyone in america depends on the postal service. i get my cancer medications through the mail. now washington, they're looking at shutting down post offices coast to coast. closing plants is not the answer. they want to cut 100,000 jobs. it's gonna cost us more, and the service is gonna be less. we could lose clientele because of increased mailing times. the ripple effect is going to be devastating. congress created the problem. and if our legislators get on the ball, they can make the right decisions.

oh. let's go. from the crack, off the backboard.

making sure we are ad qualitily and properly communicating with the public and to assist us in your role and assist us in getting information out, we would like to establish regular press conferences and you'll be getting more information about that. this is the initial one. this also, however, is a special one in that we do have an announcement to make. at this point i would like to call on police chief bill lee. >> thank you, mr. bonaparte. as a career police officer and a father, i'm keenly aware of the emotions associated with this tragic death of a child. i'm aware that my role as the leader of this agency has become a distraction from the investigation. while i stand by the sanford police department, its personnel, and the investigation that was conducted in regards to

the trayvon martin case, it is apparent that my involve many in this matter is overshadowment the process. therefore, i have come to the decision that i must temporary remove myself from the position as police chief for the city of sanford. do i this in the homes of restoring some semblance of calm to the city which has been in turmoil for several weeks. as the chief of police to the city of sanford, i've made sure the facts of this case have been presented to the office of the state attorney. it is my hope the investigation process will move forward swiftly and appropriately through the justice system and that a final determination in this case is reached. thank you. >> in the interim, the police captain will associate the

co-duties running the sanford police department while we look for an interim police chief. this is a very difficult time for this community and for our nation. this incident has gathered internasa attention. i ask that the citizens both of sanford and the country understand the judicial process has been in place. what the city of sanford wants more than anything else is justice. it has been turned over to the state's attorney's office. the governor has asked the department of law enforcement to assist. the mayor, could congresswoman brown have enjoined and gotten the united states department of justice to be part of the process so we're looking for a complete thorough review, and that justice will prevail. at this point i would like to thank you. we'll be getting a schedule of regular press conference. >> what does temporarily mean? what does he mean temporarily

remove himself? >> that was a live press conference from sanford, florida, where the police chief billy jr. just announced that he will temporarily step down will he got a vote of no confidence. potentially trying to cut off the further criticism saying to him that he didn't want to be a distraction. we'll talk more about this. joining us now live from sanford, florida, the managing editor and an msnbc contributor and clint van zandt, a form he fbi profiler and analyst. thank you both. big news conscience out of sanford, florida, with bill lee stepping down. temporarily. was that expected based on what you're hearing? >> well, i think that we were moving in the direct of bill lee being removed or stepping down on his own. you have to understand the pressure on the city manager who really is the only person who

had the authority to remove bill lee. the vote of no confidence that took place yesterday was merely symbolic. i think it was emblematic of an eroding confidence not just in lee but the department. keep in mind, he is the third sheriff that sanford has had in three years. the previous sheriff stepped down because of a controversy over another case in which a lieutenant's son beat up a homeless man and then was not arrested. then you have the interim sheriff that followed him step down because he disclosed there was an internal affairs investigation about the first case. so lee is actually the guy who was brought in to try to clean this up and heal rims with the community. and he had begun to do that when this happened. so i think he was moving toward removal and this was a face-saving move. >> i think this is very noticeable that he mentioned a temporary stepping down. stepping aside if you will. as part of the fbi investigation, they're obviously going to be at how the police

conducted their case. could that, penning their investigation, could that mean a perm stepping down, if you will, a resignation for bill lee? >> well, the fbi won't make any recommendation concerning the police chief and whether he should keep his job or not. in fact, you know, i think we need to understand, when the fbi comes in, the federal government comes in, their latitude to let's say, entertain any type of federal prosecution is somewhat limited. the audio tape, the 911 tapes will be important because they're going to have to show some type of frame of mind on the shooter that this was a hate crime. that this was a racial crime. if not, this is not a federal crime. this stays in local jurisdiction. i think the fbi is here, number one, because they should be there to do this independent investigation. number two, kind of a calming measure that this community after a month really deserves. and i think part of this calming measure is for the police chief

to step aside and likely step down in the near future. >> so joy ann, it seem to me that part of what added to the pressure on this police chief and the city manager, i don't know if you saw the interview last night with trayvon's parents and reverend al, the picture that's emerging of this young man as a hero who saved his father's life when he was just 9 years old. i have to imagine that added to the pressure. i have to imagine that adds to the emotion. what do we expect on the ground tonight? >> you make a really great point. particularly as compared to mr. zimmerman. george zimmerman is a man who did have a criminal record. he had been arrested in the past in 2005 for battery on a law enforcement officer. he is someone who at least is being portrayed in the media as someone who was really for trouble. out there armed. walking around. looking for people that he thought were related to recent break-ins. because he is also hidden and is not and there isn't, there aren't very many people speaking on his behalf.

we're seeing this emerging divergent pictures of trayvon martin. you can't underestimate the pain that this community has been going through for a long time. the police department, their relationship with the african-american community was not just armed by this. this was the culmination of at least two years of systematic problems and of course, there was the fact that two of the officers who were on the scene at the trayvon martin shooting were also on the scene of this previous case. the collison case two years ago when once again, police made a decision on the ground not to arrest someone who in this case, had a relationship to police. >> she brings up a really important point. something that i've been thinking about and wondering about with regard to the fbi. there are so many missteps, clearly, in this case. and as joy ann said, not just this case. there's been a culmination of the way african-americans feel they've been treated in this community. is that something the fbi will look into?

>> i think they have to look into it but again, we have to say is that something the federal government, the department of justice could really prosecute. there is a lot of facts and wrong facts flying around. mr. zimmerman's parents confirmed that he is a latino, an white. so we have to make sure that the world understands, if in fact they're paining this as black and white, this is black and brown as far as the family is concerned. that doesn't make any difference as far as this young man being dead. but matt lauer brought up a good point, too, on the "today" show when he said, this guy zimmerman, the shooter, has in fact since the first of the year, made over 40 calls to police in his self-assumed role as some type of neighborhood patrol officer. but matt also pointed out that this is the first incident where there is been any confrontation. and i think that's what the fbi

has to look for is why in this particular case, this confrontation took place and who is responsible. >> all right. joy ann reed. the police chief in sanford, florida, has just announced that he will temporarily step aside as the case is investigated. it's just too hard." then there was a moment. when i decided to find a way to keep going. go for olympic gold and go to college too. [ male announcer ] every day we help students earn their bachelor's or master's degree for tomorrow's careers. this is your moment. let nothing stand in your way. devry university, proud to support the education of our u.s. olympic team.

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moments ago sanford police chief bill lee announced he'll temporarily step aside. his department's been heavily criticized on its handle of the trayvon martin case. joining us is congresswoman eddy bernice johnson of texas. thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> i wanted to talk to you about the announcement, it came as a surprise to some, probably not to others. do we think this will help tone down the temperature at least for some time on this investigation? >> i think it will help to tone

down the temperature. it was very clear to me that the confidence in this police chief had vanished, and the community was very highly suspicious as to whether or not the law would be enforced. i think there's still a question as to whether it's considered a hate crime, and i heard the clarification that this man had been, is not labeled w labeled . all of that is unfortunate. it's unfortunate that a young, black male has been murdered. but the thing, though, with hate crimes, it's usually described by the motivation of the person toward the person that they are injuring. >> right. >> i think there's still a question as to whether there was a hate crime because in one of the reports that i saw, it did point out that of all of the descriptions they could have said, they indicated that he was black. >> but it strikes me that the

race of the shooter is really immaterial to whether or not this was a hate crime, right? you can be a black person. >> that's correct. >> with a racial motivation and it still can be a hate crime. that's one of the misnomers in this case people were saying he was a white shooting an african-american. the point is certainly what was the intent. that's my understanding of the law. >> exactly. that is the understanding. that's my understanding of the law as well and that's why i pointed this out. the description of the perpetrator is not necessarily the thing that's important. it is a motivation of the perpetrator. >> right. >> and we could only go on what was recorded, and one of the motivations did appear to be racial. >> right, all right, we'll certainly be learning more in the days and weeks to come. congresswoman eddie bernice johnson thank you for joining me. >> thank you for having me. >> we'll be right back to clear the air. or hires another employee, it's not just good for business, it's good for the entire community.

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father and i were pulled over one night on a highway in virginia. we were headed back to new york after visiting family in martinsville. i wasn't scared until i heard the police officer order my father out of the car, like a criminal, and he said "boy, you got some i.d.?" i'd never heard anyone talk to my dad like that. as he got out of the car he told me not to worry but the way he said it only frightened me more. my father's offense wasn't speeding. my father's offense was that he was a black man driving a nice car. to the officer this seemed out of place, just as a young, black man in a hoodie wrongly seemed out of place to george zimmerman the night he shot and killed trayvon martin. left unchecked or unchallenged our biases, bigotry and stereotypes take over our better judgment. people, in trayvon martin's case, a teenager walking home from the store, are dehumanized into some form of other, unworthy of respect and it's justified as a way to make people some kind of separate and unequal status.

so when newt gingrich, presidential candidate newt gingrich says that "really poor children in really poor neighborhoods have no habits of working and have nobody around them who works, they have no habit of i do this and you give me cash, unless it's illegal," or rick santorum says, "i don't want to make black people's lives easier," or rush limbaugh calls a presidential candidate senator barack obama a magic negro, or mitt romney says nothing at all, the effect is dangerous, because they reinforce and validate old stereotypes that associate the poor and welfare as criminal behavior with african-americans and people of color, calling us lazy, undeserving recipients of public assistance. in the case of trayvon, those festering stereotypes had lethal consequences. you know, early this month i joined civil rights hero john lewis in retracing the steps of the civil rights movement through birmingham, mondtgomery

and selma, alabama. it was inspiring to be reminded of the courage that people from all backgrounds, black, white, gay, straight, men, women, conservative, liberal, they refused to let their silence endorse the evil around them. they stood up against the hate, against the racism, and against prejudice. thank you very much for watching. matt miller is in today for dylan. matt, what you got for us? >> hey, karen, great commentary there at the end. obviously we're going to be following more on the latest in the trayvon martin case. we'll look at the latest pipeline politics with the president approving at least part of the controversial keystone pipeline. plus more karen finney, who will be joining us on the panel as she continues her march through the msnbc schedule. the show starts right now.